Curse

ElnoreVarda · Aug 17, 2008, 11:40 PM // 23:40

I PUG a lot (in pve); mainly because Ive finished everything there is to finish and success doesnt really matter anymore - meeting new people, occasionally laughing at them and watching the social interaction in random groups are more important.
Im an ele, by the way; only class Ive ever played - mainly because of the hairstyle - and I really enjoy build building. I like updates too, so when Anet decided to buff [Ether renewal] it took me about 2 minutes (yes, its true) to create an "Ether prot spam" build. I had been playing with [ether prism] for the same purpose awhile before, so I was familiar with the concept.
To make the story shorter; ER spam rocks, and In HM, its much nicer to keep your buddies alive and letting them kill stuff instead of you trying to burn things with pitiful fire spells, sometimes dealing less than half damage.

But only twice since the update Ive seen another ele run anything similar to ER spam. I doubt all eles think they are the kings and queens of pve damage and I doubt "all" PUG eles are RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing retards, so why dont they give support/healing a try? Im not saying that all eles should ditch their nuking routine, just wondering why NO ONE seems to run ER prot since its a VERY valid build.

Edit (After investigating the forum rules, this seems to be the correct way to "expand" your thread):
So PUG eles are RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing retards and think they own pve with epic damage? Okay, then. ER prot spam not being able to replace a monk because of bad healing/flexibility/whatever, just working in a few areas/not being a good "general" build; have you even tried it?

[Great dwarf weapon][spirit bond][protective spirit][Shield guardian][reversal of fortune][glyph of swiftness][Ether renewal][aura of restoration]

This is what I usually run, sometimes dropping [glyph of swiftness] for [infuse health].
To start with: Bad monks spam, yes - but Im not a monk, so I spam like hell. Spamming gives me energy, health and keeps stuff alive. Good monks would be spamming too, if they had the energy for it.
I can adjust a few skills, depending on area, but this usually works just fine. Think it sucks? Afraid of getting ER removed? Well, cover it with AoR and PS, or just drop all your enchants on yourself. Missing condi/hex removal, a res, more damage? If you want to be a jack-of-all-trades, add whatever you want; just having 2 short recharging and effective prot skills you can spam non stop will get you far.
My point is that ER spam is VERY robust and works VERY fine in general (high-end) pve. People saying anything else havent tried it or did something wrong.

angmar_nite · Aug 17, 2008, 11:44 PM // 23:44

PUG ele's are RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing retards. But still Mind Blast is not entirely obsolete.

Tyla · Aug 17, 2008, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Good players do bring utility, considering Elementalist is mainly a midliner position.

However, Ether Renewal Prot is a nice break from simply supporting your party in different ways, e.g snaring, blinding...

Lawrence Chang · Aug 17, 2008, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElnoreVarda

I PUG a lot (in pve); mainly because Ive finished everything there is to finish and success doesnt really matter anymore - meeting new people, occasionally laughing at them and watching the social interaction in random groups are more important.
Im an ele, by the way; only class Ive ever played - mainly because of the hairstyle - and I really enjoy build building. I like updates too, so when Anet decided to buff [Ether renewal] it took me about 2 minutes (yes, its true) to create an "Ether prot spam" build. I had been playing with [ether prism] for the same purpose awhile before, so I was familiar with the concept.
To make the story shorter; ER spam rocks, and In HM, its much nicer to keep your buddies alive and letting them kill stuff instead of you trying to burn things with pitiful fire spells, sometimes dealing less than half damage.

But only twice since the update Ive seen another ele run anything similar to ER spam. I doubt all eles think they are the kings and queens of pve damage and I doubt "all" PUG eles are RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing retards, so why dont they give support/healing a try? Im not saying that all eles should ditch their nuking routine, just wondering why NO ONE seems to run ER prot since its a VERY valid build.

conformity

ALF71BE · Aug 18, 2008, 12:09 AM // 00:09

You have probably noticed that fire eles deal ok damage in NM. Well, before HM they used eles to kill stuff. They never realized their damage is not armor-ignoring. And now they didn't actualized their builds, so they're stuck with a 3 years old, obsolete technique build. This comes from other MMO's where the old tank-nuke-heal always worked. That's also why you see tanks using /Mo stuff and Endure Pain, for example. Adn also the reason why HB monks are so popular yet everyone with half a brain knows they suck.

You can't do anything against noobs. And that's what you get when you PuG.

Lord Armotag · Aug 18, 2008, 12:34 AM // 00:34

Because we're pyromaniacs.

And to tight to buy more skills :P

Chthon · Aug 18, 2008, 12:58 AM // 00:58

Why don't you see it very much?

Because E.Renewal prot isn't robust enough to replace a monk. Sure, it's got superior prot, no doubt about that. But it's seriously lacking in red-bars-go-up - especially big spot heals - and condition/hex removal. Since you can't replace a monk, that leaves you trying to get a spot as a third defense-oriented character on a team - something that's not needed very often.

I'm not saying that E.Renewal is strictly incapable of replacing a monk (In fact, I've been working on using 2 E.Renewals to replace both monks.), but so far no one's produced a build that really performs as well in the field as a good monk.

TheodenKing · Aug 18, 2008, 01:10 AM // 01:10

I'm not saying that a prot ele doesn't work, because I know it can. However, a monk that knows how to manage his energy will always be better than a prot ele who's only strength is a large pool of energy.

Rhamia Darigaz · Aug 18, 2008, 01:17 AM // 01:17

sure fire eles are bad, but running an ether renewal prot ele instead of a monk isn't all that great either.
also, you've never played any class but an ele and you think you've finished everything there is to do in gw? i disagree.

~Grogs~ · Aug 18, 2008, 01:24 AM // 01:24

I've played a fair bit with Elnore in lots of different areas, having constant energy to spam prots on recharge is more beneficial in PvE imo, than having a monk that can pull off a couple of big heals, and burn energy removing hexes / conditions that will be reapplied the moment they are removed.

With some micro managing, condition / hex removal is better left to a utility hero of a class that has an innate energy management advantage.

I'd rather have ER prot spam than a monk anytime in PvE, but each to their own...

/Jenna

Tyla · Aug 18, 2008, 01:25 AM // 01:25

^

Only bad Monks spam.

angmar_nite · Aug 18, 2008, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhamia Darigaz

sure fire eles are bad, but running an ether renewal prot ele instead of a monk isn't all that great either.
also, you've never played any class but an ele and you think you've finished everything there is to do in gw? i disagree.

Midline moar pl0x

ALF71BE · Aug 18, 2008, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

^

Only bad Monks spam.

Henchmen = bad monks.

Heros of monk proffession = bad monks.

PuG's monks = terribaed monks.

So you don't have much to choose from.

-Lotus- · Aug 18, 2008, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElnoreVarda

I doubt all eles think they are the kings and queens of pve damage and I doubt "all" PUG eles are RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing retards

you are quite wrong. most eles are under the impression that they deal more damage than melee characters. thats how Anet marketed them to players, and thats how people assume they work.

Rhamia Darigaz · Aug 18, 2008, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by angmar_nite

Midline moar pl0x

what does that have to do with what i said?

draxynnic · Aug 18, 2008, 03:29 AM // 03:29

While the ether renewal prot build does work, the lack of backing it up with healing as well can hurt - especially if you're trying to hold off a large amount of damage at once rather than relying on Energy Storage to outlast pressure.

More importantly, the Elementalist probably has better ways of doing it. In fact, as much as I may be risking the wrath of Shan for saying so, at the moment it appears that in Hard Mode, mesmers are elementalists and elementalists are mesmers.

The first is, of course, because Mesmers can dish out armour-ignoring damage, so certain builds can outnuke a fire ele after armour is taken into account. Reversing the scales, however, Air and Earth Elementalists are possibly the kings of damage-mitigating conditions:

Air offers Blind, Weakness, and with the new Thunderclap, area Daze. Single-target knockdowns are available in both elite and exhaustion-inducing nonelite forms, and spamming Lightning Javelin spam is possibly more effective at disrupting physical attackers than Clumsiness. Cracked armour is an added bonus, and with the correct support (see below) you might as well toss it in as well.

Earth offers area-of-effect Blind through Eruption, Weakness with a reasonably easy condition to meet through Ebon Hawk and a number of conditional and unconditional knockdowns as well as wards.

Either of these could be combined with a condition-spreading Mesmer to share the joy around or just have the Elementalist themselves carry Epidemic. This is most useful with air elementalists, as they're more likely to stack a pile of conditions on one target, while earth elementalists are more likely to have spread the joy around without such support. One thing that is truly nasty, when you can pull it off, is a condition-spread Mesmer with a dazebot ranger and a blindbot Elementalist. Even an air ele with a Mesmer secondary for Epidemic or an unsupported earth ele can probably achieve more damage mitigation with their own skills, however, than speccing into Prot gives in a lot of situations. Any damage you DO do is just an added bonus.

While not dishing out conditions (apart from Blind, and that requires support from other skills), Water also has its uses in keeping the party intact through snaring (and hence making the mobs easier to keep away from your squishies) as well as other hexes such as Blurred Vision, and potentially caster shutdown through Maelstrom.

Note that I said above 'in a lot of situations'. If you're in a situation where you just want to spam a given Protection skill, or set of Protection skills, as rapidly as possible, such as Extinguish in the finale of Nightfall or if not everyone managed to bring Frigid Armour into the finale of EOTN, then by all means play Ether Renewal Prot. The thought does strike me that it might be worth taking just the specific Prot skills you need and taking a cut-down Elementalist build on the side for many of those situations, however.

RhanoctJocosa · Aug 18, 2008, 03:45 AM // 03:45

funny how there's always something to cry about in the magical land of pve.

people don't want prot eles (or whatever fkn lol builds you come up with) because they're narrow minded and want to run what they know works... if you have a problem with that get better friends or /wrists

Arkantos · Aug 18, 2008, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

funny how there's always something to cry about in the magical land of pve.

people don't want prot eles (or whatever fkn lol builds you come up with) because they're narrow minded and want to run what they know works... if you have a problem with that get better friends or /wrists

Pretty much sums up what I was going to say.

Pugs, and lots of people in Guild Wars play what they know works, and what they think is best. Pugs think warriors are best at tanking, so pugs run warrior tanks. Pugs think eles are best at nuking, so pugs run ele nukers. Find a guild that lets people run what they want to run, as long as it's a good build.

angmar_nite · Aug 18, 2008, 03:53 AM // 03:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhamia Darigaz

what does that have to do with what i said?

You seem to think everything should be either monking or hurling out damage points. There are far more ways of augmenting damage or reducing it than a monk could ever hope to accomplish. A blinded Hammer warrior will do no damage saving the monk far more energy than it would cost to blind him, whereas GDW adds up enough damage in just a few seconds (not counting knockdown value) to be farr stronger than any normal spell. Finally, pushing red bars up doesn't require much - indeed you can protect AND push red bars in an ER build.

~Grogs~ · Aug 18, 2008, 03:53 AM // 03:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

While the ether renewal prot build does work, the lack of backing it up with healing as well can hurt - especially if you're trying to hold off a large amount of damage at once rather than relying on Energy Storage to outlast pressure.

If all the OP was doing was using a high energy pool to hold off pressure then it would be fail.

ER is the key, as long as you've got some enchantments on you while spamming, then it's hello unlimited energy. The PvE version of the skill can be kept up almost 24/7.

Any damage that is lost by speccing into prot can be more than made up for by bringing something like GDW to kick around the physicals.